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Author Topic: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)  (Read 63317 times)

Jonny

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #165 on: 25 Nov 2009 - 08:42 »

so it's a standards conversion.

Yep, but it just seems odd that even though the Japanese disc has minor footage missing it still runs a whopping 8 minutes shorter than the fandub. I'd estimate that there's no more than a minute or two of footage missing which makes the speed up quite hefty. Standards conversions don't usually have that much of a discrepancy, do they? I've not noticed it before if they do.
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ecc

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #166 on: 25 Nov 2009 - 09:56 »

I don't have the fandub I did within reach but I slowed it down to 23.976.  Is the Lovelockandload-approved version in PAL?  If not, then the loss would be about 4 minutes.  If it's PAL, then yes 8 minutes is quite a bit of footage missing.

Jonny

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #167 on: 25 Nov 2009 - 10:03 »

I don't have the fandub I did within reach but I slowed it down to 23.976.  Is the Lovelockandload-approved version in PAL?  If not, then the loss would be about 4 minutes.  If it's PAL, then yes 8 minutes is quite a bit of footage missing.

No, Marc converted it to NTSC.

This is where I get confused. The fandub is NTSC and the Jap DVD is NTSC. Timings are different by 8 minutes, yet you say it's only 4? How does that work?

Japanese DVD - NTSC (29.970) 1h 22min 11secs
Fandub - NTSC (29.970) 1h 30m 43secs
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ecc

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #168 on: 25 Nov 2009 - 12:36 »

When a film transfer is converted to PAL, it's framerate is sped up by 4% (from 23.976 to 25 fps).  When a PAL master is standards converted to NTSC, it is field-blended from 25 to 29.97 fps so it retains the PAL speedup (a correct conversion of a PAL master of a film to NTSC would slow down the framerate back to 23.976 along with the audio). 

If the Japanese disc is incorrectly converted from a PAL master (as many are), then it would retain the PAL running time so part of that missing 8 minutes would include PAL speedup (and that would be more evident on progressive monitors during horizontal motion in which ghosting and interlace artifacts would be more apparent).

NTSC framerate is 29.97 but with film transfers this can be achieved two ways.  The "hard-telecine" method results in 29.97 frames and pictures per second composed of 59.94 interlaced fields per seconds.  The "soft-telecine" method encodes the image progressively at 23.976 fps and a pulldown flag is inserted into the file to tell the DVD player itself to perform pulldown on the fly to 29.97 if the player and TV are incapable of outputting a progressive image.  Both retain the original 23.976 running time.

Jonny

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #169 on: 25 Nov 2009 - 13:25 »

If the Japanese disc is incorrectly converted from a PAL master (as many are), then it would retain the PAL running time

Seems to me that the Japanese disc has been incorrectly converted from PAL and could it also have been sped up a bit? I can never hear PAL speed up but the Japanese DVD soundtrack is noticeably faster to my ear during the parts with music in them.

Running time for the UK VHS is 1h 27m 20secs (PAL)

Have a listen to these mp3's I just made to hear what I mean...

Japanese DVD - Opening credits music

Fandub - Opening credits music

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ecc

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #170 on: 25 Nov 2009 - 14:11 »

While the PAL image will run faster, PAL audio can be pitch-corrected to sound normal.  The case with MYA's FOUR FLIES was that the audio was taken from the German DVD which had pitch-corrected the audio and MYA slowed it down without re-correcting the pitch.

I'm not always able to tell if a PAL DVD's audio has been pitch corrected or not if I've never seen it in any other form (or had a soundtrack to listen to) but one that I definitely noticed it on was Cecchi Gori's disc of THE CHURCH where the voices on the English track sounded really high (since I had seen the film on tape originally and had the Anchor Bay disc to compare).

Quote
Japanese DVD - NTSC (29.970) 1h 22min 11secs
Fandub - NTSC (29.970) 1h 30m 43secs
Running time for the UK VHS is 1h 27m 20secs (PAL)

The difference between the UK VHS and the fandub can be mostly accounted for with PAL speedup (though when I did my version of the fandub, I was always adjusting the audio back and forth by milliseconds so Italian and English sources differed slightly with both featuring scenes or shots that ran a few frames or seconds longer or shorter).  If we were to convert the NTSC speed of the fandub to PAL, it would run at 87 minutes so it would only be 4 minutes and 49 seconds longer than the Japanese disc.

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Hi everyone at Lovelock.

I was digging around Giallo Fever and read about the existance of a pristine DVD of Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo ( Tonino Cervi 1973 ). I am a HUGE fan of this film and only have a ropey old dvdr sourced from a vhs copy. Any help on this would be much appreciated. Cheers.

Here is a link to an earlier post in the thread that compares the fandub and the Japanese DVD caps:
http://www.lovelockandload.net/forum/index.php?topic=1072.msg33705#msg33705

indravayu

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #172 on: 06 Jan 2010 - 03:32 »

Hey folks,
New member here (I am a 38 year old EuroCult movie fan living in New York City) - after reading the Giallo Fever review of Queens of Evil, I DL'd a badly cropped VHS rip and watched it Sunday night - man, I really loved it! I am glad to see there are so many other people who appreciate this little gem. I definitely want to see a widescreen version now!

- Chris
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ecc

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #173 on: 22 May 2010 - 10:11 »

apparently coming in July from Cecchi Gori's Cinemakult (although I thought Cecchi Gori had gone bankrupt)

I wonder if it's uncut or the same shorter source provided for the Japanese DVD.

Jonny

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #174 on: 22 May 2010 - 10:39 »

apparently coming in July from Cecchi Gori's Cinemakult (although I thought Cecchi Gori had gone bankrupt)

I wonder if it's uncut or the same shorter source provided for the Japanese DVD.

Be interesting to see what this turns out to be.

More on Cinemakult in this thread HERE
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prospero

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #175 on: 01 Jun 2010 - 13:51 »


Be interesting to see what this turns out to be.

More on Cinemakult in this thread HERE

no details yet as to whether there'll be Engl subs? I'm dying to see this one!
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Luca Canali

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #176 on: 20 Jul 2010 - 20:51 »

Anyone picked up the CineKult DVD of this yet? ( http://www.kultvideo.com/articles/ArticleSheet.aspx?aid=7431 ). Anyone know if it's uncut?
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Jonny

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #177 on: 21 Jul 2010 - 07:26 »

Anyone picked up the CineKult DVD of this yet? ( http://www.kultvideo.com/articles/ArticleSheet.aspx?aid=7431 ). Anyone know if it's uncut?

No, I was toying with the idea of buying it but thought I'd hold off until I heard some solid info first. having shelled out for the Japanese DVD I'd be gutted if I paid up for the Italian one only for it to be the same trasnfer...
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Luca Canali

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #178 on: 21 Jul 2010 - 17:39 »

No worries mate, likewise I'll keep scouring the net until I hear something. Cheers.
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Sundance

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Re: Queens of Evil / Il delitto del diavolo (Tonino Cervi, 1971)
« Reply #179 on: 21 Jul 2010 - 20:22 »

Well I might have the new disc late next week MAYBE, so if nobody can tell anything before then...  ;D
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